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albain · Joined: 25 Mar 2009, 09:42 **Posts:** 5 **Device:** PC

Hi,

I am a directshow developer (FFDShow Tryout to be more precise), and I have spent (lost would be a better word) a lot of time to understand how the multimedia pipeline of Windows 7 is working agains the previous versions of Windows.

Bad news :
1/ Microsoft has locked mpeg4 and h264 codecs into Media Foundation, the replacer of DirectShow (even if directshow is still supported).
2/ There is no way to override those codecs, even if you develop a Media Foundation version of your decoder, because Microsoft maintains a list of preferred codecs (their codecs) into the registry (HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT and HKLM \MediaFoundation\Transforms\Preferred), and this registry key cannot be modified, even in admin mode. Only TrustedInstaller user can modify it, which is FYI the user that protects system files, and it cannot be used.
3/ I have done my tests on build 7057 which is close to release candidate, so few chances that things are going to change till release version.

Microsoft brought those new codecs (which is good news for end user) but blocked the possibility to use alternate codecs in their applications.
It reminds me some cases with Internet Explorer vs Netscape...

I don't know if you guys are aware of that, this is very annoying, I find that your decoder is the best in the market and as a Media Center end user, I see no hope for the future...

Some people would argue that one uses another player, but today windows media center is the most advanced solution for many uses.

Just wanted to share this with you

Regards,

Damien Bain-Thouverez

BetaBoy · Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 10:06 **Posts:** 2092

Damien.... great detective work! I'm sitting here with my mouth wide open, thinking about how this will effect many products... I need time to think it through but till I can comment more, I've posted the news on Doom9 and internally here with the team and Haali.

residentour · Joined: 18 Mar 2009, 07:29 **Posts:** 8

I can use another h264 codecs and mpeg4 codecs with my 7057 build x64 edition windows 7.

albain · Joined: 25 Mar 2009, 09:42 **Posts:** 5 **Device:** PC

residentour wrote:

I can use another h264 codecs and mpeg4 codecs with my 7057 build x64 edition windows 7.

How do you know that your codec is used ?

Are you using wmp or wmc ?

residentour · Joined: 18 Mar 2009, 07:29 **Posts:** 8

I am using Bsplayer and it can easily shows codec filter in use. Options> filters> "used codecs" . Also some h264 codecs have watermark seen on the very beginning of the video and some have tray icons.

albain · Joined: 25 Mar 2009, 09:42 **Posts:** 5 **Device:** PC

Oh yes of course you can, but this is a hack into the system.

The solution is to take control of the registry key and removes the mapping with MS decoders.

Also, the problem I raised concerns MS applications : wmp and media center

I don't know about third party players

BlackSun · **Posted:** 27 Mar 2009, 07:37

3rd party players are not concerned since they use a standard DirectShow graph building (though I did not tested, it's my own supposition)

Bufu · **Posted:** 27 Mar 2009, 16:22

albain wrote:

2/ There is no way to override those codecs, even if you develop a Media Foundation version of your decoder, because Microsoft maintains a list of preferred codecs (their codecs) into the registry (HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT and HKLM \MediaFoundation\Transforms\Preferred), and this registry key cannot be modified, even in admin mode. Only TrustedInstaller user can modify it, which is FYI the user that protects system files, and it cannot be used.

Right click on the "Preffered" key -> Permissions -> Advanced -> Owner -> Change owner to admin account or your user. I think that should work!

TalynOne · **Posted:** 28 Mar 2009, 02:46

I recommend posting your grievance to the MSDN forums:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums ... t/threads/

Worst comes to worse, if Microsoft wants to be a bastard about this, simply write into your installation application a procedure to take ownership of said key as an Administrator, and overwrite it to have the appropriate value. If using the Nullsoft install system you could use something like this: http://nsis.sourceforge.net/AccessControl_plug-in

tastysheriff · Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 23:43 **Posts:** 1 **Device:** Plum

First off thanks to Albain for all the hard work digging up this issue (and putting up with that horrible argument with that MSDN MVP. He was harsh.)

I just wanted to chime in and state for the record that I am categorically against any application I install doing any sort of hack or script to gain admin rights without my expressed consent. I would be willing to go in and change the registry key myself but I don't want to have some app I download using some super-trusted super-user account to change a registry setting when I probably wouldn't even realize it was happening. Thats sketchy.

I'm hoping that Microsoft has some sort of wonderful moment and decides to expose to the user a way to explicitly define the codec used. Beyond that I fear its back to MediaPortal for me. And Win7 was starting to look so good too...

TalynOne · **Posted:** 01 Apr 2009, 15:23

Hate to tell you this, but the only rights needed would be Admin rights, which 90% of application installations need anyway. It wouldn't be using the super secret TrustedInstaller account, it was be using the Admin account to take ownership and the Admin account to set the correct registry values, the whole point of taking ownership is not to have to touch the TrustedInstaller account.

serwei · Joined: 07 Jul 2008, 23:49 **Posts:** 4

hmmm is this resovled in 7068?

jflet1 · **Posted:** 02 Apr 2009, 06:13

I recently purchased CoreAVC specifically for my Windows7 HTPC project.

Until the latest builds, this worked fine. Unfortunately, MS has now spoiled the party.

Can someone post a brief guide on how to force WMC under Windows7 to use CoreAVC ?

Like many others, I'm quite comfortable with making changes with Regedit, and have no issue of using a trustedinstaller account to make the necessary changes.

What isnt clear, either from the CoreAVC/TGB forums are exactly what changes need to be made.

CoreAVC is a superb piece of software

, I just want to be able to use it....

Julian,

Birmingham, UK

albain · Joined: 25 Mar 2009, 09:42 **Posts:** 5 **Device:** PC

Same problem here with last builds.

It does not smell good for the final release.

Seems to be confirmed by Microsoft :
http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/04/01/mi ... #continued

adoy · **Posted:** 06 Apr 2009, 01:23

It seems that the problem will be fixed in the RC and the final...

http://windows7center.com/news/rumor-smash-windows-7-to-support-third-party-codecs/

BetaBoy · Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 10:06 **Posts:** 2092

I find that very hard to believe.... but seeing that the first RC is just around the corner... lets see if its true.

serwei · Joined: 07 Jul 2008, 23:49 **Posts:** 4

7068 still locks the AVI to use WM codecs only.
But I renamed the file to MKV and the haali + vobsub etc systray icons pop up as per normal.

albain · Joined: 25 Mar 2009, 09:42 **Posts:** 5 **Device:** PC

Hi,

Microsoft made specific developments and added those registry keys to control the use of their own filters inside their applications.

I doubt they will reverse this behaviour and throw those developments away.

A while ago with XP MS made an application to define the default applications inside windows : default mail client, default web browser,...
They were (and still are) able to do the same with the media formats : default decoder for MPEG4, default decoder for H264,...
It is not complicated, instead of locking codecs...

There is a solution to revert these locks : make the installer of the decoder take the control of the registry key and override the mapping of the mediatype from the ms decoder to another.
But this solution is a hack and could be considered as a virus by security softwares.

Meanwhile, I hope that Haali will add this option to autoload an alternate filter automatically on output.
This will not work for avis but this is better than nothing.

Damien BT

BetaBoy · Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 10:06 **Posts:** 2092

albain wrote:

There is a solution to revert these locks : make the installer of the decoder take the control of the registry key and override the mapping of the mediatype from the ms decoder to another.
But this solution is a hack and could be considered as a virus by security softwares.

Meanwhile, I hope that Haali will add this option to autoload an alternate filter automatically on output.
This will not work for avis but this is better than nothing.

Damien BT

Damien.... yeah it would be considered a virus/attack by many security companies and not a clean solution.

The other option to autoload a filter sounds like a great alternative and stresses the power of container like Matroska, which you all know we are in favor of here. I already pinged Haali on this.

Carmina · **Posted:** 22 Aug 2009, 08:39

Until now still it won't work on Windows 7? What about adding patches? I don't think that Microsoft can do it quickly.

Pret immobilier

BetaBoy · Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 10:06 **Posts:** 2092

Just to give you all an update... Haali is working on adding native Windows 7 support in Media Foundation /WMP/MCE for the splitter/renderer. Nothing to send out to testers yet.... but know its a work in progress.

rallymax · **Posted:** 04 Nov 2009, 19:26

Assuming that it will be possible to change the preferred list at some point...

does CoreCodec register the codec in the CLSID list?
- I searched for "CoreAVCDecoder.ax" and didn't find an entry.

You can work out what entries are Video Decoders by looking in the Category tree and finding the "Video decoders" entry. It has a list of the video decoders registered.

Code:

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\MediaFoundation\Transforms\Categories\d6c02d4b-6833-45b4-971a-05a4b04bab91

Looking at those entries you find that this one is the H264 decoder.

Code:

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\MediaFoundation\Transforms\62ce7e72-4c71-4d20-b15d-452831a87d9d

You can see that is is included in the Preferred list. (the root cause of this thread)

Code:

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\MediaFoundation\Transforms\Preferred

If the Preferred is to be changed to use CoreCodec instead of Microsoft's dll, the change will need a CLSID entry to point to. I'm non-to-happy with modifying the existing CLSID entry's string that points to the Microsoft dll. (which btw is another hack way around this - copy CoreAVCDecoder.ax over the top of the DLL ("ax" files are "dll"s too).

Code:

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{62CE7E72-4C71-4D20-B15D-452831A87D9D} = C:\Windows\System32\msmpeg2vdec.dll is changed to point to "C:\Program Files\CoreCodec\CoreAVC Professional Edition\CoreAVCDecoder.ax" instead.

I would much prefer fixing the problem this way instead of contaminating the system with other un-necessary media splitters. I simply want to change my H.264 decoder to CoreCodec so that I can continue to play H.264 on my under-powered laptop. CoreAVC + WinXP was great. Win7 is fantastic, it's unfortunate that it was at the expense of HD playback due to a poorly implemented decoder that seems, as of Build 7100 to be locked down.

jacinthey · **Posted:** 03 Dec 2009, 01:33

How long did it take you to revieve your Acer Window 7 free upgrade? I just bought an Acer Aspire x3810 on November 11, on that same day i also ordered online my Window 7 free upgrade. But till now today (Nov 28) on order status website it stay says fulfillment in progress! Just to let you know, I am extremely desperate for Window 7.

BetaBoy · Joined: 06 Feb 2007, 10:06 **Posts:** 2092

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQqmBXvIInA

Fun with Windows 7 and CoreAVC 2.0 ;-)

rallymax · **Posted:** 07 Dec 2009, 13:43

the video shows that this was for MKV files. It is going to be possible with other containers?
AVI?
MOV?
MPG?